Curse

Arkantos · Oct 23, 2006, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by xiaotsu

Except the part where there is no difference in damage between 14^50 and 15^50

Which is where your wrong. There is a difference between 14 and 15. Sure, it could be a mere 2 damage, but every damage counts in a spike. I've seen times in GvGs where people had 3 health left. Now, what if the 2 warriors were using 14^50 instead of 15^50. The enemy would of died. There you go, theres a difference.

Emik · Oct 23, 2006, 11:50 AM // 11:50

I'm wondering what it would be if for instance you hade a random skillbar to go with that..

Jetdoc · Oct 23, 2006, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Which is where your wrong. There is a difference between 14 and 15. Sure, it could be a mere 2 damage, but every damage counts in a spike. I've seen times in GvGs where people had 3 health left. Now, what if the 2 warriors were using 14^50 instead of 15^50. The enemy would of died. There you go, theres a difference.

Actually, unless your weapon can do more than 100 damage in one hit (i.e. without skills), the maximum benefit that a 15>50 can have over 14>50 is 1 point of damage. And most of the time that will be due to rounding.

unienaule · Oct 23, 2006, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

I was with you (at least with the caveat "PvE is easy if you are in a maximum size group") until you stated this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

I think it's pretty easy (for the most part) because you can use absolutely anything you want to in order to kill the stuff you already know is going to be there.

I would love for you to elaborate on this statement, as it seems to infer that you could go into the Underworld with a Candy Cane Sword and nothing but IAS skills and still succeed.

What I mean by this is that you aren't limited by areas as to what you can/can't do to mobs. For example, a place full of undead that didn't allow you to use holy damage, or warriors that were immune to blinding or hexes, etc. These are types of "cheats" that are often used in other games in PvE to make it interesting/difficult. Oh, and Jetdoc is right about there only being 1 point of damage difference. You can figure it out for yourself if you want to, because 1% of anything up to 100 is going to be less than one.

heroajax1 · Oct 23, 2006, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Good experiment guys. I'd like to see the opposite part of this w/the high end weapons and low skills to see what happens. I've always believed for the most part there is a statistically insignificant difference between 13-14^50 and 15^40.

Health and armor mods are certainly worth it, no question there. Glad to see someone actually did this.

NinjaKai · Oct 23, 2006, 04:01 PM // 16:01

As far as weapons go I love getting great skins with great mods at for chips. I bought a crenellated sword with 15^50, req 8. How much did it cost me 5k. All because it was 15-21 not 22. And since I play PvE mostly it means nothing at all.

Tainek · Oct 23, 2006, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mera Regila

Incorrect, why do you PvPers constantly bash PvE? I bet I could put a balanced GvG group in the Underworld to farm, they would die before they could even escape the Aatxes. It'd go something like this:

Warrior #1: Frenzy!
Warrior #1: *Dies Seconds Later*
Warrior #2: Same
Warriors: OMG PV3 N00000BS!!!!!!! RIPOSTE IS NOOB!!!!!!
Aatxes: *Nothing*
This repeats for several times until the team is out of ressigs. The Ranger is the next to die:
Ranger: H4x0r!!!!
Elementalist: OMG!!
Monks: OMG h4x!!!
All dead. Align's fix was better.

Or

The monks throw Prot Spirit on the warriors (So frenzy is irrelevant)
The Ele blindbot Blinds all the attaxes
the Mesmers Surge the nightmares (they have exactly 80hp, so 1 hit KO)

the rest of the team pile on damage

if you think UW, FoW or any other pve area is hard, you are A: looking at it while playing with PuGs or B: An idiot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superdarth

I must disagree,most weapons can match the "uber-stuff" in quality or are diffrent in stats,but in my eyes the diffrence is not very big,and usually its the skin they care about.

A skilled player can take down someone no matter what weapon he or the enemy is using,and i do think alot of players think that weapons make alot more diffrence then they realy do.(Im not blaming you by the way,i doubt any of those players even comes to GWGuru.)

Sure every bit helps,but its no more needed in PvP then it is in PvE.

Lets see how a warrior with a 1-5 damage hammer fares vs a warrior with a 15>50 Axe ?

heroajax1 · Oct 23, 2006, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tainek

Lets see how a warrior with a 1-5 damage hammer fares vs a warrior with a 15>50 Axe ?

Okay. Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing what the damage difference would be given max hammer mastery and max strength. Obviously, the axe warrior would be same for axe and strength.

The real test would be to use a low level axe vs a perfect axe.

Someone want to conduct this experiment?

Tainek · Oct 23, 2006, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by heroajax1

Okay. Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing what the damage difference would be given max hammer mastery and max strength. Obviously, the axe warrior would be same for axe and strength.

The real test would be to use a low level axe vs a perfect axe.

Someone want to conduct this experiment?

a 1-5 axe will hit for 0 on a warrior

Phoebe · Oct 23, 2006, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Which is where your wrong. There is a difference between 14 and 15. Sure, it could be a mere 2 damage, but every damage counts in a spike. I've seen times in GvGs where people had 3 health left. Now, what if the 2 warriors were using 14^50 instead of 15^50. The enemy would of died. There you go, theres a difference.

115 is 0.877% higher than 114

40 * 100.877% = 40.35

Lord Sarevok · Oct 23, 2006, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Anyway weapons aren't underrated. They are perhaps not well appreciated by PvE players who don't customize nor put many points in their weapon attributes so they don't do much damage anyway. The difference between 14^50 and 15^50 is minimal but it is there.

When you play for real against good opposition, if that difference causes you to miss out on a kill once every 100 matches, why hurt yourself that way? Go for the best and play to win. Ending up with 1 hp at some point of a match is not a particularly uncommon event. Again, get the +30hp fortitude because you play to win.

This is a PvE vs PvP debate regardless of anyone saying otherwise. You can finish FoW with no weapons. And they could probably do it fast. 55 N/Mo anyone.

JoeKnowMo · Oct 23, 2006, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Every point of damage and defense counts in PvE as well, just not as often as in PvP. There are times in PvE when a player is down to just 3 HP (having a +30Hp vs. + 27Hp mod or even a + 60HP while hexed shield) might be the only thing keeping them alive. Sometimes a monk gets down to 5e w a good weapon set (vs. 0e), which is just enough for a WoH to save someone's butt. Avoiding the +15% DP with each death can be an important factor as the target in now less squishy.

However, I agree that this is rare in PvE and if you've got a good team you will hardly ever run into low energy or Hp issues. If you pug pve a lot though, the weapons and their mods become more important.

Chances of death in pvp are much higher and I've been saved from death by switching from my hammer to a sword/axe and shield many, many times.

I think the OP proved the skill > uber weapons or any weapons at all. I'm sure a good guild could beat a bad to mediocre guild w/o using weapons.

chicks boy · Oct 23, 2006, 09:51 PM // 21:51

here is answer:

14>50 is goood

15>50 is better

15-22 GODLY

15-21, OH NOEEEZZZ THE 1 DMG!!!!!!!

gabrial heart · Oct 23, 2006, 10:09 PM // 22:09

As far as weapons. In pvp it's a no brainer, spiker groups (casters) aren't going to run with the uber pve 20/20's. As far as a pvp only guild going to the uber leet pve areas running the top gvg or ha builds, i have seen it and for most areas they uber pwn, most of the time.

I don't do much pvp anymore, but i have to say, most people that are great pvp'ers are even better pve'rs. I can eat dinner, goto the bathroom, read an online article or browse guru, during most pve missions, LOL.

Age · Oct 23, 2006, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Well done and it means the PvE is easy with a good coordinated group of players not just some group put together in 2 min.When it come to the differnce in PvE to pvP about this there really is no comparison unless you count the HoH when it was eight but even there you had uncoordinated groups of ppl.

Mimi Miyagi · Oct 23, 2006, 11:26 PM // 23:26

This whole thread is pretty amusing.

Last time I checked, the vast majority of PvP players used weapons and mods unlocked via Faction. I don't see warriors in GvG running around with crystaline swords, I see them running around waving stock PvP equipment.

A 500 plat sword functions no different than a collectors, or a PvP weapon with the same mods unlocked via faction.

Most costs for "high end" equipment is based solely on two things, skin and req - neither which has much bearing on the item's actual usability by a lvl 20 player, PvP or PvE.

What you're really seeing in this thread is two things - PVP players bashing PvE players - and people attempting to justify their insanely overpriced purchases.

EOT.

Y.T. · Oct 24, 2006, 07:30 AM // 07:30

wow congradz on 11 mil exp, my pve mes is waaaaaay behind u, she's getting close to 4mil exp

yes perfect weapons r alittle bit overrated, i agree, however i still dont like non-max white weapons, mb i'm too picky

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mera Regila

Incorrect, why do you PvPers constantly bash PvE? I bet I could put a balanced GvG group in the Underworld to farm, they would die before they could even escape the Aatxes. It'd go something like this:

Warrior #1: Frenzy!
Warrior #1: *Dies Seconds Later*
Warrior #2: Same
Warriors: OMG PV3 N00000BS!!!!!!! RIPOSTE IS NOOB!!!!!!
Aatxes: *Nothing*
This repeats for several times until the team is out of ressigs. The Ranger is the next to die:
Ranger: H4x0r!!!!
Elementalist: OMG!!
Monks: OMG h4x!!!
All dead. Align's fix was better.

geeze u missed the funny part

there was a time (like few month be4 factions release) when evrbdy and their grandma were farming fame with i-way tanks and of cos after w/r hit r8-r9 and got crapload of sigils they can afford a brand-new fow armor to look rly intimidating while spamming their rank animation.... but they have to get to the forgemaster 1st! so for few weeks toa am1 was full of r7+ iway teams trying to get to the forgemaster. well, usually i'm monking for fow pugs if theres nothing else i can/want to do, especially if there arent alot of guildies on, but with 5-6 hi-ranked iway teams forming in toa1 theres nothing to do for a pve monky but sit patiently near the statue, drink my coffee and place bets with other pve monks on how fast this particular r9+ group will be back to toa1 and spamming LFM.... after returning to the town few times they usually tryed to find a solution, such as take some unranked pve monk with them. now, some of monks r picky and wont waste their time and energy on healing 5 frenzied w/r with ss on them, i'm not the picky monk tho, i'm accepting 1st invite from the pug with more than 5 ppl in it and off we go, i'll heal till evr1 will leave or we'll get wiped. so of cos i monked for few ranked i-way forge groups, heres the average conversation:
leader: whats ur rank?
me: pve monks got no ranks
leader: what build?
me: boon prot
another w/r: wow pve monks run boon prot
leader: ok, looks like theres no ranked monks so we're going to give u a chance... do u know what fow armor is?
me: what do u think i'm wearing?
leader: oh, ok, 1 means rdy, try to remember

5 min in fow, 2 shadow beasts later, 5 w/r with ss on them, necro sacs himself and getting spiked and holy veil recharges too slow for the only monky, even boon protter, to save the day.....

leader: monk, wtf u think u're doing
me: stop attacking with ss on u pls
leader: wtf heal
another w/r: told u we need a normal ranked monk
me: oh well u rly should pay attention to hexes on u

rare ranked iway pug made it to the book quest and i have to tell u it's such a pain to heal designated bookholder in glads armor w/o the dolyaks but with 30%DP....... i'm not saying its impossible, it was a good practice

it beats me why they were trying to swap their weapons, dropped book means trouble

but then again, what can pve monk know about weapons swapping while holding the book

Cebe · Oct 24, 2006, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Well done and it means the PvE is easy with a good coordinated group of players not just some group put together in 2 min.When it come to the differnce in PvE to pvP about this there really is no comparison unless you count the HoH when it was eight but even there you had uncoordinated groups of ppl.

It is exactly that. A group you throw together has no idea what anyone else is capable of or how they may be able to help them in mission. I have seen this time and time again with "OMG How hard is this - HAX!" missions like Zen Daijun and Aborstone. Now I personally don't think they're hard...in the slightest unless you're with a group of complete numptys who don't know that standing in the miasma is bad whilst fighting and trying to cast Meteor Shower in Aborstone without Glyph of Concentration is not the most sensible plan.

My point is...when I do these missions with friends and alliance members it runs so smoothly. Everyone knows what everyone else is capable of. I try to spike off dangerous members of the mob with air magic, our necro will cause widespread damage across the group with Spiteful Spirit, we protect my brother, who usually monks for us, since if he dies...we might...and it works! As for the weapon debate...hmm, I'm not sold on white shing jea island weapons being pretty much as good as perfect gold ones you find in Kurzick Chests (etc..) but I do find the extra 100k + 50 ectos people pay for that extra 1% damage to be a little extreme. I like my green weapons. Not because they make me a better person or better at fighting but becuse I like them...for their green-ness, their skin and their perfectness. The same perfectness that on a gold weapon would cost a lot more. They're just nice to have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y.T.

leader: monk, wtf u think u're doing
me: stop attacking with ss on u pls
leader: wtf heal
another w/r: told u we need a normal ranked monk
me: oh well u rly should pay attention to hexes on u

I know what you mean. I tried taking my necro into Fort Aspenwood yesterday...haven't been in there for ages, especially as necro, but I wanted to have a play with Feast of Corruption. Anyway, I would cast Insidious Parasite on the warriors attacking me...and they didn't seem to realise that if they hit me...I stole health. Needless to say they died and I lived. Quality! Silly wammo!

JR · Oct 24, 2006, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

You're not proving that you dont need weapons to play. You are proving that despite your 11 million experience you know little enough about this game to actually think that lack of weapons could actually make PvE even slightly challenging.

M-M-M-MONSTER FIXED.

Arkantos · Oct 24, 2006, 09:18 AM // 09:18

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